Ask the Judge, 12/09/2005 - Feature Friday

418.5 — Interaction of Continuous Effects, Part 2

This article illustrates, by example, Rule 418.5 of the Comprehensive Rulebook. It's a followup to last week's article, which described and explained this rule and it's subrules, which cover the interaction of continuous effects—one of the most complicated concepts in the game.

An Example, in Which Several Confusing Things Occur and are Properly Dealt With
This may look like a lot after you read it, but don't worry. It's not that scary, and I'll take you through it step by step.

You control Castle, Mycosynth Lattice, and Empty-Shrine Kannushi. You then play Clone, and choose to have it copy the Empty-Shrine Kannushi when it resolves. Then, your opponent plays Sorceress Queen's activated ability targeting your Clone, and it resolves. Finally, you play a Shifting Sky, and name Red.

Let's look at what layer each effect applies in, and if each is a CSA (I have some “reminder text” here for your convenience as to what the cards do.)

• Castle (Untapped creatures you control get +0/+2). 6d. It is a static ability and adjusts (not sets) power and toughness.
• Mycosynth Lattice (All permanents are artifacts in addition to their other types.): 4. It changes type.
• Mycosynth Lattice (All cards that aren't in play, spells, and permanents are colorless.): 5. Does it copy? Change control? Change text? Change a type, subtype, or supertype? Change P/T? No to all. So layer 5 it is.
• Empty-Shrine Kannushi (Empty-Shrine Kannushi has protection from the colors of permanents you control.): 5, CSA. See the comments on the second Mycosythe Lattice ability. This also meets the definition for CSA.
• Clone (As Clone comes into play, you may choose a creature in play. If you do, Clone comes into play as a copy of that creature.): 1. This one's pretty self explanatory, this is obviously a copy effect.
• Sorceress Queen (T: Target creature other than Sorceress Queen is 0/2 until end of turn.): 6b. This P/T-changing ability resolves, which locks it at 6b.
• Shifting Sky (As Shifting Sky comes into play, choose a color. All nonland permanents are the chosen color.): 5. See the second Mycosyth Lattice comments above.

In summary, we have the following effects:

Effect	Layer	CSA
Castle	6d	No
Mycosynth Lattice (first ability)	4	No
Mycosynth Lattice (second ability)	5	No
Empty-Shrine Kannushi	5	Yes
Clone	1	No
Sorceress Queen	6b	No
Shifting Sky	5	No

Now, then we apply effects with those in the earlier layer first, and those in the latter layers last. The only thing left to sort out is what order to apply the other effects in the layer 5 effects. To do this, we construct an ordered list of them as follows:

1. Group all effects in timestamp order, except with all the CSAs at the top, and all the non-CSAs at the bottom.
2. Then, identify any dependencies.
3. If an effect A is dependent on effect B, and A is earlier on this list, move A to just after B. If there are multiple effects that would occur “just after” a dependent effect like this, put them in timestamp order. Ignore this if there is a dependency loop (e.g. A is dependent on B, which is dependent on C, which is dependent on A).

(Note: This works out with the four things in their priority order. Since we analyze dependency after timestamp and CSA-ness, it actually ends up getting precedence, which is the structure I outlined above.)

In our example, step #1 gives us Empty-Shrine Kannushi, Mycosynth Lattice (second ability), and finally the Shifting Sky. But in step #2 we note that Empty-Shrine Kannushi is dependent on both Mycosynth Lattice (second ability) and Shifting Sky, so after step #3 is: Mycosynthe Lattice, Shifting Sky, and finally Empty-Shrine Kannushi.

So, now that we've calculated the order of effects, we start with the Clone's printed characteristics, and go through and apply the effects one at a time to calculate what the Clone's characteristics are at each step:

Last Effect Applied	Color	Types	Abilities	P/T
None (Printed Values	Blue	Creature—Shapeshifter	Clone copy ability	0/0
(1) Clone	White	Creature—Humar Cleric	E-SK ability	1/1
(4) Mycosynth Lattice	White	Artifact Creature—H.C.	E-SK ability	1/1
(5) Mycosynth Lattice	[None]	Artifact Creature—H.C.	E-SK ability	1/1
(5) Shifting Sky	Red	Artifact Creature—H.C.	E-SK ability, Pro-Red	1/1
(5) Empty-Shrine Kannushi	Red	Artifact Creature—H.C.	E-SK ability, Pro-Red	1/1
(6b) Sorceress Queen	Red	Artifact Creature—H.C.	E-SK ability, Pro-Red	0/2
(6d) Castle	Red	Artifact Creature—H.C.	E-SK ability, Pro-Red	0/4

So our Clone is now a red 0/4 artifact creature, with creature subtypes Human and Cleric, and has protection from Red, in addition to the Empty-Shrine Kannushi ability.

Brief Description of Examples of Changes as a Result of the Ravnica Update
The following are reversals of the Ravnica update (October 1, 2005) rulebook:

• If you have a Genju, you can play the ability once, and then if it's power and toughness are lowered (but not lethally) by Mutilate or a similar effect, you can reactived the Genju to restore them to those numbers.
• Bonesplitter and Riptide Mangler now make a much stronger combo. After attaching the Bonsplitter to the Mangler, you can activate the Mangler (targeting itself) once to make it's power 4, again to make it 6, again to make it 8, and so forth. This is because the Mangler's ability applies in layer 6b, while Bonesplitter applies in layer 6d.
• Before, +1/+1 counters would not end up applying to the final p/t of an object if it had its power and toughness set by a Sorceress Queen activation or a Humility. Now, they will always end up applying to creature permanents, no matter what effects exist.
• Switching effects, as you notice from looking at the last layer. Basically that means: if you have one or more switches, count them, but calculate p/t as if they don't exist. Then, when you're done, if you have an odd number of switches, switch the p/t. If you have an even number, do nothing.
• With a Humility and two Opalescences in play, if Humility has the latest timestamp, then all creatures are 1/1 with no abilities. If one of the Opalescence's was latest, then all the permanents that are both enchantments and creatures are N/N (where N is its converted mana cost) with no abilities, and all creatures that aren't enchantments will be 1/1 with no abilities. See, reasonable!

Another Example, Illustrating Certain Other Features of Continuous Effects
Absolutely. You control an untapped Nightmare and a Castle. You play Giant Growth, targeting your Nightmare. After Giant Growth resolves, your opponent plays Strange Inversion targeting Nightmare. After that resolves, you play Magical Hack, again targeting Nightmare. Once the stack is empty, your opponent plays his Sorceress Queen's ability targeting the Nightmare. And then, finally, just to be funny after such a confusing turn, you decide to play Humility.

Where to begin? Let's get a list of all the effects in timestamp order, and finally see if they are characteristic-setting abilities or not:

• Nightmare (Nightmare's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Swamps you control.): 6a. This is a P/T effect so it belongs somewhere in 6. It also meets the CSA test: It defines only Nightmare's P/T, it's intrinsic, and says characteristics "are" a certain value.
• +1/+1 counter: 6c
• Castle (Untapped creatures you control get +0/+2.): 6d.
• Giant Growth (Target creature gets +3/+3 until end of turn.): 6b
• Strange Inversion (Switch target creature's power and toughness until end of turn.) : 6e. Remember switching effects apply in 6e!
• Magical Hack (Change the text of target spell or permanent by replacing all instances of one basic land type with another.): 3. It changes text.
• Sorceress Queen (T: Target creature other than Sorceress Queen is 0/2 until end of turn.): 6b.
• Humility (All creatures lose all abilities.): 5. This meets the "it doesn't do anything that the other layers do, so it applies in 5" default. Though, it is good to bring up a common misconception here. While text on a card defines it's abilities, text and abilities are not the same thing. Humility only removes the abilities, but they still have the text. And since Humility doesn't alter text, it doesn't apply in layer 3.
• Humility (All creatures ... are 1/1.): 6b. Humility is a tricky one. Yes, it's a static ability, but it doesn't adjust power and toughness, it sets them to something. Only static abilities that adjust apply in 6d, so Humility belongs in 6b.

In summary, we have:

Effect	Layer	CSA
Nightmare	6a	Yes
+1/+1 counter	6c	No
Castle	6d	No
Giant Growth	6b	No
Strange Inversion	6e	No
Magical Hack	3	No
Sorceress Queen	6b	No
Humility (remove abilities)	5	No
Humility (make creatures 1/1s)	6b	No

All right. Now we look for any dependencies. Here's a hint: There are no dependencies anywhere in layer 6. This makes sense if you think about what power and toughness effects do. Changing the order of them might change the result, but none of them make each other cease to exist or change what they apply to. With that in mind, and noting that the other layers only have at most one effect, we see no dependencies. Layer 6 handles CSA automatically for us by putting them in 6a, so we're really just talking about layers and timestamp here. So, here's the order you apply them in, and the Nightmare's characteristics after each:

Last Effect Applied	Nightmare's P/T	Nightmare's Abilities
None (Printed values)	*/*	P/T = # Swamps
(3) Magical Hack	*/*	P/T = # Islands
(5) Humility (remove abilities)	*/*	[None]
(6b) Giant Growth	*/*	[None]
(6b) Sorceress Queen	0/2	[None]
(6b) Humility (P/T = 1/1)	1/1	[None]
(6c) +1/+1 counter	2/2	[None]
(6d) Castle	2/4	[None]
(6e) Strange Inversion	4/2	[None]

(Note: */* means the power and toughness are undefined.)

So, what happened here? First Magical Hack changed the text of Nightmare's ability so it looked at the swamps instead of the islands. But we haven't gotten to layer 6 to start calculating the power/toughness yet, and since there is no defined printed power/toughness, it remains that. Next, Humility removes the abilities of all creatures. Note that this makes Nightmare lose the ability that was just modified. Since the ability doesn't exist by the time we get to layer 6a to apply it, it doesn't get applied.

Giant Growth applies next, but increasing undefined values gives you... well, undefined values. So we then move on. Next, Sorceress Queen sets the power to 0/2. It doesn't care what the previous P/T were, so it doesn't matter that they were undefined. Also remember that since applying continuous effects doesn't occur in any real "time", it doesn't matter that the P/T was undefined partway through the application process.

Humility has the last timestamp of the 6b effects, so the Nightmare's P/T is then 1/1. Then, our +1/+1 counter applies in 6c, making Nightmare a 2/2. Then we move on to 6d, and Castle applies making it a 2/4, and finally in 6e, Stange Inversion's switch effects make it a 4/2.

Still confused?
You're not alone. I have to double check myself on these quite a bit. But if you think about it, these rules define how most everything in Magic does what it does, so if you want to improve your rules knowledge and ability judge older formats where Humility might actually see play, it's good to learn. So I'd just try reading it a couple times, and if you are still confused, talk about it with someone else you know who is good with the rules. If you want to get in touch with me, feel free to do so (my contact information is at the end of this article).

(By the way, I have it on good authority that questions involving situations rising to the level of complication I did above are rejected as questions in the DCI Exam Center, so don't bother trying to submit them. On the other hand, don't worry about them either, if you plan on taking an exam soon.)

Thanks for reading!

-- Lee Sharpe, lee DOT sharpe AT gmail DOT com DCI Level 3 Judge